July 1998 Weekly Firesides

"The Weekly Fireside" 
of the American Civil War History 
Special Interest Group 
Week ending 05 July 1998 

Those of you that didn't make the "Letters, Songs, and Poems night last Thursday missed another great 
one. We laughed and cried and were generally "struck dumb" by the depth of the readings. They seem to 
get better every month. However, I wish to announce that we have begun to save those specials and last 
Thursdays is now posted for your viewing pleasure in the History Lectures area of the Genealogy Forum's 
Files Library. Also just uploaded the last 3 Firesides up to New Uploads Library. Give GFA Beth and her 
crew a couple of days to get it posted and then have at it..... We were blessed with "Young Folk" 
Thursday night as well...... Ted Ryan's (Bulltdogtjr) 14 year old grandson Dan came to join us and we 
wish to extend him a special welcome and a hearty "Come on Back"... We really enjoyed talking with 
him. 

I thought I might also give Ted our hearty support and Good Luck in is little war with Rensselaer County, 
New York. Seems Ted discovered a "pile of dust" which was supposedly a goodly portion of their 
Historical Records Archive. So he has taken after them as any good Historical Researcher would. There's 
just no excuse of that and you can imagine all the "He done its" coming from the management. Good 
Luck Ted!!

I'm going to keep this ANNOUNCEMENT up so you will all be able to plan for it.. GFS Karen and GFS 
BB are going to leave the Native American SIG for one night and come visit us to give a Guest Fireside 
on the "Redstick War". The role of the Native Americans in the Civil War. GFS Karen just confirmed 
23 July as our date.... This is a rarely covered topic but so pertinent to the history we focus on in this 
SIG..... Mark your calendars, because you surely won't want to miss this one. 

FOR ALL THE 1ST TIMERS - "WELCOME" WE ENJOYED HAVING YOU :-)..... COME 
AGAIN.... 

I was thinking over the 4th holiday that our friends in Florida are having a pretty rough summer. So let’s 
all send a prayer their way or good thoughts or whatever your persuation is. They surely need some relief 
“Big Time”. Hang in there “Floridians”, the wet and cool are on the way.......

The final continuing series in the newsletter, is on the Civil War Military Records which can be found at, 
or through film ordering at your local Family History Centers........ So many of you have been astonished 
that those records are available through the FHCs, that I thought this would be very useful in your 
research.... 

This upcoming Thursday is OPEN CHAT on Civil War History. Come join us...
************************************************************************************* 

THE HELP DESK 

This segment is to address specific questions that hit our plate on Thursday night that we didn't have a 
chance to answer or needed a bit of time to check it out. Hope these answer the mail :D 

Editor's Note: Regimental Histories and Letters, etc. Postings: keyword "roots", after which will bring 
you to the main screen of the Genealogy Forum. Select the "Files Library Center", then "History Files". 
At that point select "Civil War Files. Lectures are also posted in the "Files Library Center" under "History 
Lectures" as the Lecture Subject. Meeting Logs are posted in the "Files Library Center" under "Meeting 
Logs and Newsletters". 
************************************************************************************* 
U.S. Military Records at the Family History Centers............................. 

The next stage of series, I thought would be best to describe the various Types of Military Records 
available for Civil War researchers and those available through the FHC network. 

Specific Union Sources........................... 

Union Army soldiers may have served in the U.S. Army, local militia units mustered into federal service, 
or volunteer regiments raised by the individual states. The length of service varied from 90 days to three 
years. Many soldiers also re-enlisted serving in more than one regiment. The Union Army and Navy 
enlisted over 2.3 million men, of which nearly 359,000 died in combat or from wounds and disease.

Union Service Records

Service Records of Soldiers. - There is currently no master index to the names of soldiers who served in 
Union volunteer regiments. Note from the editor: A Union Soldiers Roster is in the making by Broadfoot 
Publishing, but it’s incomplete. Individual indexes to state volunteer regiments are available on microfilm 
for every Northern state and every Southern state except South Carolina. Most service records have not 
been microfilmed and are available only at the National Archives. The following service records and 
indexes are available on microfilm at the National Archives and Family History Library........

- Alabama. Complied Service Service Records, National Archives Microfilm Publication M276 (FHL 
films 1,276,611-20; FHLC computer number 110833) and Index, National Archives Nicrofilm 
Publications M263 (FHL film 880,608).

- Arizona. Index, National Archives Microfilm Publication M532 (FHL 881,608).

- Arkansas. Compiled Service Records, National Archives Microfilm Publication M399 (FHL films 
1,380,796-855; (FHLC computer number 437581) and Index, National Archives Microfilm Publication 
M383 (FHL films 881,488-91; FHLC computer number 278992).

California. Index, National Archives Microfilm Publication M533 (FHL films 881,609-15; FHLC 
computer number 278708).

Colorado. Index, National Archives Microfilm Publication M534 (FHL films 821,998-882,000; FHLC 
computer number 279913).


.........................to be continued... 

************************************************************************************ 
Subj: [Fwd: [NEW-GEN-URL-L] Military History & Records Sources]
From: rosewebb@datasync.com (Rose C. Webb)

I just checked out the following 2 URL's and think they could be of
significant value to anyone trying to trace U. S. Military history or
genealogy issues related to records of their relatives. See what you think?
They are as follows:
http://www.history.navy.mil/index.html
http://imabbs.army.mil/cmh-pg/
Happy Hunting.

/S/
Rear Admiral Jim Carey
Washington, DC

{{{Rosie}}} As always you provide the “Best”....
************************************************************************************
DID YOU KNOW?? ................................... 
Excerpts taken from “Best Little Stories from the Civil War” by C. Brian Kelly.....

Nearly fifteen years old, Fred was hired out to a farmer and “pious” churchgoer named Edward 
Covey. This was in Maryland. “I had been at my new home but one week before Mr. Covey gave me a 
very severe whipping, cutting my back, causing the blood to run, and raising ridges on my flesh as large 
as my little finger.” Fred was whipped about once a week for the next six months or so, until he fought 
back. Even then, he remained a slave, and it would be years before he found freedom, his means of escape 
to the North still a secret when he published his autobiography in 1845.
Beyond his own experiences, his book presented quite an indictment. As a young child he saw a 
black woman, “Aunt Hester,” beaten with hands tied above her head and the rope looped over a joist 
above. He told of an overseer named Austin Gore who whot a slave named Demby in the face for refusing 
to stand still for a whipping. Another white man, Thomas Lanham, killed two slaves, “one of whom he 
killed with a hatchet, by knocking his brains out.” A Mrs Giles Hicks, angered at a slave teenager who 
feel asleep while babysitting, hit the girl with a stick and injured her fatally. An old black man oystering 
in Chesapeake Bay strayed over a neighbor’s property line .... and was shot by the neighbor.
And so on. Mere whippings are hardly worth mention, there were so many. The Reverend Rigby 
Hopkins, for instance, “always managed to have one or more of his slaves to whip every Monday 
morning.” There was always some excuse.
It would astonish one, unaccustomed to a slave-holding life, to see with what wonderful ease a 
slaveholder can find things, of which to make occasion to whip a slave. A mere look, word or motion -- a 
mistake, accident or want of power -- are all matters for which a slave may be whipped at any time. Does 
a slave look dissatisfied? It is said, he has the devil in him, and it must be whipped out. Does he speak 
loudly when spoken to by his master? Then he is getting high-minded, and should be taken down a 
buttonhole lower. Does he forget to pull off his hat at the approach of a white person? Then he is 
wanting in reverence, and should be whipped for it. Does he ever venture to vindicate his conduct, when 
censured for it? Then he is guilty of impudence -- one of the greatest crimes of which a slave can be 
guilty. Does he ever venture to suggest a different mode of doing things from that pointed out by his 
master? He is indeed presumptuous and getting above himself, and nothing less than a flogging will do 
for him. Does he, while plowing, break a plow? or while hoeing break a hoe? It is owing to his 
carelessness, and for it a slave must always be whipped. Mr. Hopkins could always find something of this 
sort to justify the use of the lash, and he seldom failed to embrace such opportunities.
Fortunately, Fred found his way out of slavery. On his personal journey to freedom, he secretly 
learned to read and write. He learned so well, in fact, that he later became a famous orator, abolitionish, 
and diplomat. A leader among blacks, he was known by his later name, Frederick Douglass.

Note from the editor: Seems that freedom “for all” is what we’re ‘a-celebrating this week end. 
“Long May She Wave”.....................
************************************************************************************
A BIT OF THURSDAY NIGHT by request of those that saw this series collected from Dec of 1862; the 
place; FREDERICKSBURG...............................

Constantine Hege served as a private with the 48th North Carolina Volunteer Infantry. He wrote home 
after the first Battle of Fredericksburg, Virginia, on December 13, 1862.

Thursday morning
December 18, A.D. 1862
Near Fredericksburg, Virginia
Dearly Beloved Parents:
I now once more have or take the opportunity of writting a few lines to you to let you know how affairs are 
here. I am somewhat unwell at present. I was taken with a chill and then a pain on my side night before 
last, but I now feel right better this morning. I think it was just a bad cold, which I had taken because I 
have nothing but old pieces of shoe on my feet. May toes are naked, and my clothing are getting ragged.

I have not got my box of clothing yet, and I don't know whether I ever will get them or not because the 
boxes are very often robbed at the depots. I wrote to you to bring me a box of clothing as soon as you can, 
and come with them yourself so that you can be certain that I will get them because I need them very 
much.

There has been a very hard battle fought here at Fredericksburg Saturday. Our regiment was in the heart 
of the fight. I did not have to go into the battle because I am so near barefooted the colonel gave orders 
that all the barefooted men should stay at the camp. I can tell you I was glad then that my shoes did not 
come, because I would rather lose a hundred dollars than to go in a battle.

There was a great many killed and wounded, it is said that there were ten thousand Yankees killed during 
the battle. I do not know how many of our men were killed, but I know that there were a great many 
wounded. There were nineteen wounded and one killed in our company. The human suffering, the loss 
of life and above all the loss of many a precious soul that is caused by war -- would to God this war might 
end with the close of the year and we could all enjoy the blessing of a comfortable house and home one 
more time. I never knew how to value home until I came in the army.

It is thought that we would go on to Richmond in a few days. Tell Mr. Writes that I would be very glad to 
get a letter from him, tell Uncle Christos that I would like for some of them to write me, and I want you to 
write oftener and do not wait for me to answer every one of your letters before you write. I have not 
received any letter from you since Charles was out here. We have had very little chance to write out here 
because we have to drill twice a day in general and then have dress parade in the evening, and paper and 
ink is very scarce here, so I must close by giving you all the best wishes and respects and if we never meet 
on earth I hope to meet you in a better world.

Your affectionate son,
C.A. Hege

*********************

William Gordon McCabe entered the Confederate Army in the artillery and rose from a private to captain. 
At the time of writing this poem he was with the Army of Northern Virginia encamped about 
Fredericksburg. The sanguinary repulse of Burnside was only twelve days in the past, but the thoughts of 
the soldiers were turned toward family and home.

CHRISTMAS NIGHT OF '62

The wintry blast goes wailing by,
The snow is falling overhead;
I hear the lonely sentry's tread,
And distant watch-fires light the sky.

Dim forms go flitting through the gloom;
The soldiers cluster round the blaze
To talk of other Christmas days,
And softly speak of home and home.

My sabre swinging overhead
Gleams in the watch-fire's fitful glow,
While fiercely drives the blinding snow
And memory leads me to the dead.

My thoughts go wandering to and fro,
Vibrating 'twixt the Now and Then;'
I see the low-browed home again,
The old hall wreathed with mistletoe.

And sweetly from the far-off years
Comes borne the laughter faint and low,
The voices of the Long Ago!
My eyes are wet with tender tears. 

I feel again the mother-kiss
I see again the glad surprise
that lightened up the tranquil eyes
And brimmed them o'er with tears of bliss,

As, rushing from the old hall-door,
She fondly clasped her wayward boy --
Her face all radiant with the joy
She felt to see him home once more.

My sabre swinging on the bough
Gleams in the watch-fire's fitful glow,
While fiercely drives the blinding snow
Aslant upon my saddened brow.

Those cherished faces all are gone!
Asleep within the quiet graves
Where lies the snow in drifting waves, --
And I am sitting here alone.

There's not a comrade here tonight
But knows that loved ones far away
On bended knees this night will pray:
"God bring our darling from the fight."

But there are none to wish me back,
For me no yearning prayers arise.
The lips are mute and closed the eyes --
My home is in the bivouac.

by William Gordon McCabe
***************************
.................and finally

It has been documented in many, many places, from diaries and letters of Civil War Veterans, to 
newspaper stories, about a tradition that occurred over and over in Federal and Confederate camps at the 
end of the day. At twilight, the regimental bands would begin their evening concerts. If the armies were 
bivouacked close to each other, the bands would sometimes compete with each other or they would 
alternate. Toward the end of their concerts the music would become tender and soothing calling up 
memories of home, family and better days.

One such occassion, I would like to tell about. It's twilight in Virginia, along the Rappahannock River. 
The Union Army of about 100,000 is camped on one side of the river and the Confederate Army of 70,000 
is camped on the other. It's cold that night on the 13th of December, 1862. A few weeks earlier they had 
fought the Battle of Fredericksburg, at that time in the conflict, the bloodiest battle fought. 12,000 Federal 
and 5,000 Confederate had been killed or wounded.. The bands had come to the close of their concerts 
and that night they had alternated back and forth, the music becoming more and more tender, bringing 
tears and longing to the hearts of the soldiers. Finally the Federal band started one of the Civil War's 
favorite tunes. The music floated over the river, while men and boys, were writing letters home. It was so 
light, and haunting. No sooner had the Federal band started than a Confederate band joined in. One at a 
time, other regimental bands on both sides joined in, adding their "voice" to the music. Pens were put 
down, card games stopped; all sound stopped except for the music. Finally every regimental band had 
joined in to meld the music together. Still not a sound from 170,000 souls as they sat motionless with 
their frosty breath rising in the night air and listening to an "unearthly" song........

"Mid pleasures and palaces though we may roam,
Be it ever so humble there's no place like home!
A charm from the skies seems to hallow us there,
Which, seek through the world, is ne'er met with elsewhere;
Home! Home! sweet, sweet, Home!
There's no place like Home!
There's no place like Home."

As the music slowly began to fade, suddenly from that awesome silence, both sides "Roared" up and 
started cheering, jumping up and down, throwing their hats in the air. In the words of one witness, Frank 
Mixson, Private, 1st South Carolina Volunteers; "Had there not been a river between them, the two armies 
would have met face to face, shaken hands, and ended the war on that spot.

The song; "Home Sweet Home" by John Howard Payne. Thank you Ernest L. Abel for your article in the 
May 1996 edition of "America's Civil War" Magazine that reminded me of this incredible incident. I 
took some license with this one, but who couldn’t..... Hope you enjoyed.... Now you know why our 
special night is “Special”.......

GFS Jim
************************************************************************************ 
A BIT OF COMMUNITY............................ 

Check out the following member inputs for comments and requests for information, Feedbacks, Items of 
Interest and Pleas for HELP................ 

************************************************************************************ 
Subj: Re: Question in The Weekly Fireside - 6/7/98==>responce
From: WCR MAJOR

Many thanks,.. I will work this and let you know how it turns out.

Thanks again ! DEO VINDICE !!

“Major” Thats what we try for. NEVassau “THANKS” :-)
************************************************************************************ 
Subj: CALL TO ARMS
From: FI WATROUS

This came from another Rootsweb List and we were so outraged at reading this that we felt morally bound to pass it on. Keep in mind, these are "elected" officials!!
We hope you will flood the newspaper mentioned below with letters to the editor.

Ike and Nancy Watrous
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please forward the news of this Marion County, West Virginia travesty to every 
genealogy group or historical society that you belong to. Also, if you have any
media contacts or government contacts please forward this information to them.
Let's make Cody Starcher infamous! 

From: Pam Mullinax
E-Mail: pmullinax@mindspring.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fairmont -- Leatherbound books recording transactions between 1842 to
1880 have been important to local genealogist, but now the historical
books are gone - buried with the five bins of trash the Marion County
Commission hauled away from the Jacob's building last week.

Along with books were, boxes and files of papers dating back to Marion
County's inception in 1942. There were five floors that had books, boxes 
and files to be removed.

Some of the books were Wills; others were Justice of the Peace books. 
There may have been other records, but the article didn't say what all 
had been destoyed, because they didn't know. The article was a large 
article for the paper. The historical and genealogical societies were
NOT notified that the county had planned to discard the handwritten
record books, files and other etcs. 

It seems the decision was made by the county commissioners (namely, Cody
Starcher) to clear out several floors from the Jacobs building (scheduled
for renovation) in which these historical documents were stored. They
decided on their own that no one would want to go through all the files to
separate out the salvagable and so decided to not tell anyone. They then
had the local garbage collectors come and clear out the books and documents.

*************

The story about the above first appeared in the Times West Virginian 
(Fairmont, WV)Sunday,June 21, 1998. On Thursday, June 25, 1998 the 
below follow-up story was published.

* * *
Dump off limits to historians 

By Theresa Haynes 
Times West Virginian Staff Writer

FAIRMONT - 
Genealogists who wanted to dig through the landfill in search of the
county's discarded pre-Civil War record books will not be allowed to
excavate the dump. Ron Chrislip, a local historian who has researched
Marion County's past for more than 30 years, said he and four other people
were prepared to go to the Meadowfill Landfill in Bridgeport to search for
the record books tossed last week.

But landfill officials halted the group's plans at the request of the
Marion County Commission.

The day books dating back to 1842 were among several tons of outdated
files, books and papers the commission removed from the historic Jacob's
building, which is undergoing renovation.

Chrislip said he and other genealogists wanted to dig up the historically
valuable record books when they learned the books had been hauled away to
the dump, but the landfill told them there were confidential files among
the garbage.

Commissioner Cody Starcher said in an interview last week that the county
had received special permission from the state to include old juvenile
records in the six BFI Dumpster trash bins hauled to the dump.

"We are allowed to throw the juvenile records away after 20 years," he
said. "But they usually have to be shredded and burned."

Now local historians are concerned they will never see the priceless,
handwritten books again.

"I don't see how they will be retrieved," Chrislip said. "As a historian I
have to be realistic. Now hopefully the county will preserve what is left."
Chrislip said the leather-bound books were particularly valuable because
they recorded everything from the county clerk's office.

"Record keeping then was a very different process," he said. "We were still
in Virginia and documents like that are very, very rare."

The historian said the records gave insight into a lifestyle long gone.

"There is no oral history from that time, no photography and very little
written history. Through the day books we had a great deal of information
to interpret history," he said.

Chrislip agrees with the county commission that the books had no monetary
value, but he said the county has lost something culturally valuable.

He said 20 years ago he had searched for day books like the ones thrown
away and was told they did not exist. Years later he learned they were in
existence, but in "dead" storage.

The historian said he and other people interested in genealogy would have
liked to have been given access to the books before they were discarded.

County Commission President James Sago and Starcher were not available for
comment Wednesday evening. 
* * *

If you'd like to write the Editor of the WV Times,

The email address is:
timeswv@timeswv.com

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR: 
All letters for publication should be so stated. 
Requests for publication must include address & telephone number. 
phone: (304) 367-2500 * Fax: (304) 367-2569 
Or postal mail to: 
Times West Virginian 
PO Box 2530 
Fairmont, WV 26555-2530 

{{{Ike & Nancy}}} Thanks for the info... This is absolutely ridiculous. “SIC EM” gang.....
************************************************************************************* 

Subj: Fwd: Civil War Ancestor
From: NEVassau

Jim and Jayne,
This letter comes from someone who I sent information to on how to obtain the location of the burial spot of a Civil War soldier who had died during the war. I thought it was such a touching letter and I asked if she would care if I shared it with you folks. She said I could, so here it is. Her description of how she felt upon seeing the grave for the first time is so tender that it makes one feel they are with her at the grave site.
Eileen
-----------------
From: annoc@tiac.net (Ann O'Connor)

Dear Eileen,
I made my trip. It was extraordinary. Away back in 1979 I wrote for his
military records and obtained a great deal of information about him,
including the letter that he wrote to his parents, three days before the
Battle of Williamsburg. So, I traced the information in the letter and
went first to Yorktown where they were encamped. Then, went on to just
outside Williamsburg where the battle took place. There was only a sign by
the side of the road indicating the battle. Across the street, there were
three "redoubts", those large trenches that they dug so that the enemy
horses could not jump over them and get behind their lines. He had
mentioned them in his letter. From there, onto Fort Monroe where he was
finally taken after laying in a field hospital for five days. He died of
his wounds at the Hygea Hospital at Fort Monroe. At the Casemate Museum
at Fort Monroe they gave me directions to the Hampton National Cemetery in
Hampton, Virgina. It was a most beautiful, small cemetery. The man in
charge of the cemetery, that day, walked me right to his grave. I was
prepared to see just a marker with a corresponding number. Not so. He had
a lovely headstone with raised letters with just his name and the state
where he had enlisted. A headstone right next to him was "unknown Soldier".

I was overcome and just sat down. I couldn't really believe my eyes.
Nobody had ever been there and here he was, resting peacefully, under a
most beautiful huge oak tree. That nice man told me that they have
memorial services there every year and flags are placed on all the graves.

I placed my flower, prayed for all the young men, and thanked God for our
government and the good people of Virginia who have taken such lovely care
of a young Union soldier so far from home.

A happy ending to a very long chapter in my life is over. Something makes
me think that you have had a similar experience. I hope that it turned out
as happy.

Thank you for your help and interest.
Ann O'Connor

{{{Eileen}}} Bless your lovin’ heart.... You exhibit what we all try to do here. “Folks helping Folks”! Ann - thanks for sharing your story....... :-)
*************************************************************************************

WHAT WE ARE ABOUT…………. 

OUR FOCUS: the "History of the North American Civil War". 

OUR GOAL: to enhance your Genealogy activity, knowledge, and "wisdom" by talking about the history 
surrounding their lives and actions; specifically the "Civil War" that our ancestors lived through and died 
because of. 

OUR PROMISE: to provide an "online" environment that is NOT judgemental and to address ALL 
aspects of this "Pivotal Period" in our History, with honesty and truth (where we know it). 

We do "Fireside Stories" about the battles, people and social happenings. In addition we dedicate one 
Thursday a month to sharing Songs, Poems and Letters from that era. So come back and visit; we'll save 
you a seat at the Fireside, and keep the Cider warm..... For a full listing of upcoming events, either look 
on the Schedule at the end of this Notice or in the Upcoming Events of the Genealogy Forum.

As we review the logs, and we find new visitors who show an interest in this topic and our Thursday 
sessions, we automatically add you to our distribution for this “Weekly Fireside.” 

AND TO YOU "FIRST-TIMERS" THIS WEEK, "Welcome"... :) 

We heartily enjoyed your visit and participation. We relish what members bring to the discussions, and 
we hope to see more of you.... Note that for any reason, should you desire to be removed from 
distribution of this "Weekly Missif", just drop us a line and we will comply with your wishes "poste-
haste". 

Schedule of Upcoming Topics/Events****** 

Time: Every Thursday Night at 11pm ET in the Golden Gates Room with Host GFS Jim and our many 
fill-in friends :) 


7/9/98 - OPEN CHAT (GFS Jim is on the road) 

7/16/98 - OPEN CHAT (GFS Jim is on the road) 

7/23/98 - "The Redstick War" A Guest Fireside by two great ladies, GFS Karen and GFS BB. 

7/30/98 - OPEN CHAT 

8/6/98 - "An Ending and a Beginning" - GFS Jim I'm trying something a little different on this one.... 

8/13/98 - "Letters, Songs and Poems" Night. 

8/20/98 - OPEN CHAT

We'll See You Thursday Night……….! 
Your Hosts 
GFS Jayne and GFS Jim 

"The Weekly Fireside" 
of the American Civil War History 
Special Interest Group 
Week ending 19 July 1998 

Well, your wandering Co-Host has returned to the nest finally. Needless to say, cockpit errors prohibited 
me from joining you two weeks ago and last Thursday, I was sitting in the Atlanta airport wandering if 
any airplane anywhere would ever fly on time again ..... LOL Man Oh Man was that a packed place!!! 
Anyhow I'm back for a space. :-) 

Thank God for my Partner (GFS Jayne) to keep the SIG fires going :-) THANKS PARTNER..... And many, many thanks to Ike (FI WATROUS), Eileen (NEVassau) and Frank (IllinoisCW) for being such able assistants..... Goes to show you what caliber of folk we have here :-) 

To properly address all the happenings of the County Courthouse Records events that have been flashing through, I have started a Special Edition which will start this week. I'll only publish it as new items come to me. There have been so much lately that I thought it would be a good idea to provide a "Public Forum" related to these events..... Hope you find this helpful....


WELL THE SPECIAL EVENING IS HERE!!!! THIS THURSDAY NIGHT, GFS Karen and GFS 
BB are going to leave the Native American SIG for one night and come visit us to give a Guest Fireside 
on the "Redstick War". This is a rarely covered topic but so pertinent to the "TOTAL" history we focus 
on in this SIG..... I can't wait. Karen and Barbara are so "in-tune" with our Native American history, 
that this will be a "Rare Treat" for us all. I wouldn't be surprised to see some of our Native American 
brothers and sisters come with them... :-) If so we are indeed honored.....

FOR ALL THE 1ST TIMERS - "WELCOME" WE ENJOYED HAVING YOU :-)..... COME 
AGAIN.... 

Well, why I was down in Florida the last two weeks, they got their RAIN....... It went a long way in 
putting out some of the fires. They have indeed had a brutal summer so far. The temperature averaged 
in the mid to high 90s and the humidity made you wilt.... We'll hope the rain continues to get them 
back to normal....

The final continuing series in the newsletter, is on the Civil War Military Records which can be found at, 
or through film ordering at your local Family History Centers........ So many of you have been astonished 
that those records are available through the FHCs, that I thought this would be very useful in your 
research.... 

This upcoming Thursday is OPEN CHAT on Civil War History. Come join us...
************************************************************************************* 

THE HELP DESK 

This segment is to address specific questions that hit our plate on Thursday night that we didn't have a 
chance to answer or needed a bit of time to check it out. Hope these answer the mail :D 

Editor's Note: Regimental Histories and Letters, etc. Postings: keyword "roots", after which will bring 
you to the main screen of the Genealogy Forum. Select the "Files Library Center", then "History Files". 
At that point select "Civil War Files. Lectures are also posted in the "Files Library Center" under "History 
Lectures" as the Lecture Subject. Meeting Logs are posted in the "Files Library Center" under "Meeting 
Logs and Newsletters". 
************************************************************************************* 
U.S. Military Records at the Family History Centers............................. 

The next stage of series, I thought would be best to describe the various Types of Military Records 
available for Civil War researchers and those available through the FHC network. 

Specific Union Sources........................... 

Union Army soldiers may have served in the U.S. Army, local militia units mustered into federal service, 
or volunteer regiments raised by the individual states. The length of service varied from 90 days to three 
years. Many soldiers also re-enlisted serving in more than one regiment. The Union Army and Navy 
enlisted over 2.3 million men, of which nearly 359,000 died in combat or from wounds and disease.

Union Service Records

Service Records of Soldiers. - There is currently no master index to the names of soldiers who served in 
Union volunteer regiments. Note from the editor: A Union Soldiers Roster is in the making by Broadfoot 
Publishing, but it's incomplete. Individual indexes to state volunteer regiments are available on microfilm 
for every Northern state and every Southern state except South Carolina. Most service records have not 
been microfilmed and are available only at the National Archives. The following service records and 
indexes are available on microfilm at the National Archives and Family History Library........

...........states continued.

- Connecticut. Index. National Archives Microfilm Publication M535 (FHL 
films 821,909-25; FHLC computer number 280576).

- Dakota. Index, National Archives Microfilm Publication M536 (FHL 881,616).

- District of Columbia. Index, National Archives Microfilm Publication 
M538 (FHL films 881,964-66; FHLC computer number 279137).

- Florida. Compiled Service Records, National Archives Microfilm Publication M400 (FHL films 
1,299,987-97; FHLC computer number 110835) and Index, National Archives Microfilm Publication 
M264 (FHL films 821,767).

- Georgia. Compiled Service Records, National Archives Microfilm Publication M403 (FHL films 
1,176,608) and Index, National Archives Microfilm Publication M385 (FHL films 881,394).

Indiana. Index, National Archives Microfilm Publication M540 (FHL films 881,722-807; FHLC 
computer number 324400).

.........................to be continued... 

************************************************************************************ 
DID YOU KNOW?? ................................... 
Excerpts taken from "Best Little Stories from the Civil War" by C. Brian Kelly.....

Near Christmastime the seventeen-year-old planter's daughter was on her way to a festive visit at 
the plantation of one Joesph Davis. His niece cam for her, "accompanied by a servant-man leading a 
horse with a lady's side-saddle." The young visitor's "impedimenta" went along in a carriage, and in 
short order they rode over "rustling leaves" and through "thick trees" to the Davis home, known as "The 
Hurricane."
There the young lady became acquainted with the owner's younger brother, then thirty-six ... and 
the real object of the visit. Her impression was that he looked closer to thirty than thirty six, that he was 
"erect, well-proportioned, and active as a boy." Moreover: "He rode with more grace than any man I have 
ever seen and gave one the impression of being incapable of either being unseated or fatigued."
That very day, the impressionable but sophisticated young woman wrote to her mother that she 
couldn't tell if he was "young or old." She added: "He looks both at times; but I believe he is old, for from 
I hear he is only two years younger than you are."
Even so, he impressed his brother's guest "as a remarkable kind of man, but of uncertain temper, 
and [he] has a way of taking for granted that everybody agrees with him when he expresses an opinion, 
which offends me." To his credit again, he had a winning manner of expressing himself and a "peculiarly 
sweet voice."
She went on to write that he was the "kind of person I should expect to rescue one from a mad 
dog at any risk, but to insist upon a stoical indifference to the fright afterward." But then again, "I do not 
think I shall ever like him as I do his brother Joe." And, a real shocker -- "Would you believe it, he is 
refined and cultivated and yet he is a Democrat!"
So wrote the little miss from a staunch Whig household of Joe's young (but, oh, so old!) brother. 
Even so, the next month Varina Howell became engaged to her host's graceful sibling. The next year, 
February of 1845, they were married .... Mr. and Mrs. Jefferson Davis.
************************************************************************************

A BIT OF COMMUNITY............................ 

Check out the following member inputs for comments and requests for information, Feedbacks, Items of 
Interest and Pleas for HELP................ 

************************************************************************************ 
From Bulldogtjr

That Old Time Religion

In the middle of a forest, a hunter was suddenly confronted by a
huge, mean bear. In his fear, all attempts to shoot the bear were
unsuccessful. Finally he turned and ran as fast as he could.

He ran and ran and eventually wound up at the edge of a very steep
cliff. His hopes were fading fast.

Seeing no way out of his predicament, and with the bear closing in at
a rapid pace, he fell to his knees and prayed, "Dear God, PLEASE give
this bear some religion!"

The sky darkened and there was lightning in the air. Just a few feet
short of the hunter, the bear come to an abrupt stop, and glanced
around somewhat confused. Suddenly the bear looked up in to the sky
and said, "Thank you God, for the food I am about to receive."

"Ted" It ain't always as it seems, is it????? LOL 
************************************************************************************
Subj: CIV/HIS: Schoolmistresses
From: BaileyABCE and Jennie Wade

There's been a discussion on schoolteachers on the list - someone posted this list of punishments. Hmmmm........too bad - nah, better not say that, it ain't PC!!! <G>

Here are some Rules for a Carolina School I found in my history file. 
It's dated 1848 , but I thought it might be interesting in light of the
school mistress question. I am not typing in all of it at once, since
there are 45 of these punishments. If anyone is interested, I can send
more later. Just didn't want to take up too much space if no one is. ;-)))

Punishments:
1. Boys and girls playing together- 4 lashes
2. Quarreling- 4 lashes
3. Fighting- 5 lashes
4. Fighting at school- 5 lashes
5. Gambling or betting at school- 4 lashes
6. Quarreling at school- 3 lashes
7. Playing cards at school- 10 lashes
8. Climbing for every foot over three feet up a tree- 1 lash
9. Telling Lies- 7 lashes
10. Telling tales out of school- 8 lashes
11. Nicknaming each other- 4 lashes
12. Giving each other ill names- 3 lashes
13- Fighting each other in time of books- 2 lashes
14. Swearing at school- 8 lashes
15- Blackguarding each other- 6 lashes
16. For misbehaving to girls- 10 lashes
17. For leaving school without the leave of the teacher- 4 lashes
18. Going home with each other without the leave of the teacher- 4 lashes
19. For drinking spiritous liquors at school- 8 lashes
20. For making swings and swinging on them- 7 lashes.

{{{Bailey and Jennie}}} GREAT! I remember the Paddle and Wooden Rulers.... I'm gonna have to lookup "Blackguarding" Heh Heh.....
*************************************************************************************

From: CDeripaska

Actually I have two stories to share. A patriotic uncle named JohnP. Barnes. He was in the civil war, first in his family to sign up. He served his time, with one brother losing a leg, another an eye, and the death of another in the Battle of Balls Bluff. John P. returned home from the war to find his father and siblings sick and dying. The Reb's had poisoned their well. john Buried his father, brother and two sisters, took others to be taken care of and returned to fight in the war. He wrote ballads about the war and talked about it till his dying day.

Now if you can use a WWII story, my dad, Clifford Leist was on the ship,"USS ARTIC" during the end of the war. They were five miles outside Japan when they were torpedoed. The ship was heavily damaged but could still float so the crew took sheets and anything else needed and made a sail to sail the ship home. It took 18 days just to make the sail and 3 months to sail it home. These men were all patriotic to me. thanks

What incredible stories!!!! We would love you to share John P. Barnes' ballads some "Letters Songs and Poems night. Thanks for sharing.....
************************************************************************************* 
From: CelticWmn

Thank you for including me on your mailing list. Though I do not have any Civil War relatives of my own, I am frequently asked for assistance by people who are seeking information on their Civil War relations . I look forward to participating as much as possible in your group. Otherwise , I will look forward to receiving e-mails such as the one that you sent me this morning. 

I appreciate being included in your group. 

Martha 
Celtic Wmn ( Yes , I DO have Irish ancestors and it shows :) )

{Martha} Heh Heh! Thank you for your good words. It's what we aim for. By the Way I'm listening to a great new CD album you'd love... It's "Long Journey Home" with Mary Black, The Chieftains, Van Morrison, Sinead O'Connor, Liam O Maonlai and the Irish Film Orchestra. 
************************************************************************************* 

Subj: Fwd... The Price They Paid
From: MDelPa

Having seen the message relative to the contributions of the Scots &
Irish, I thought that I might share the following which I received.
A reflection for the 4th of July! I hope you will read it. 

The Price They Paid

Have you ever wondered what happened to those men who signed
the Declaration of Independence?

Five signers were captured by the British as traitors and
tortured before they died. Twelve had their homes ransacked and
burned. Two lost their sons in the Revolutionary Army, another
had two sons captured. Nine of the fifty-six fought and died
from wounds or the hardship of the Revolutionary War.

What kind of men were they? Twenty-four were lawyers and
jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large
plantation owners, all men of means, well educated. But they
signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that
the penalty would be death if they were captured.

They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and
their sacred honor.

Carter Braxton of Virginia, wealthy planter and trader, saw his
ships swept from the sea by the British navy. He sold his home
and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags.

Thomas McKeam, was so hounded by the British that he was forced
to move his family almost constantly. He served in Congress
without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions
were taken from him, and poverty was his reward.

Vandals or soldiers or both, looted the properties of Ellery,
Clymer, Hall, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge and Middleton.

At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr. noted that the
British General Cornwallis, had taken over the Nelson home for
his headquarters. The owner quietly urged General George
Washington to open fire, which was done. The home was destroyed,
and Nelson died bankrupt.

Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy
jailed his wife, and soon after she died.

John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying.
Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his grist
mill were laid waste. For more than a year he lived in forests
and caves, returning home after the war to find his wife dead,
his children vanished. A few weeks later he died from exhaustion
and a broken heart.

Morris and Livingston suffered similar fates.

Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution.
These were not wild-eyed, rabble-rousing ruffians. There were
soft-spoken men of means and education. They had security, but
they valued liberty more Standing tall, straight, and
unwavering, they pledged:

"For the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on
the protection of the Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to
each other, our lives, our fortune and our sacred honor."

They gave us an Independent America. Can we keep it?

{{Jayne}} Ohhhh this is good!
*************************************************************************************
Subj: A saga of Two Gentlemen and a Lady
From: GENESGENE

An endless search, and many stone walls!. A very young brother who in his last years remembered he once had a brother who had been killed in the war. A Mother's son , who no longer existed, after the 1860 Census he was no more.,left out of the published family history. A clue was found. He and two brothers and many cousins enlisted same day..(June 1861,Columbus was 15/16 years old)) He was in 51st Va Co K; A majority of his regiment captured; he was POW Waynesboro 03 Feb 1865. Marched from Harpers Ferry to Winchester, to Ft.Delaware 12 March 1865 died there 01 June 1865 of catarrh,grave on Jersey shore.
Confirmation from US govt. buried there.,at Finn's Point in common trench.
Along came a lady AKA GFS JAYNE. Sent beautiful pictures. How peaceful it now looks,(how tortured then) and his mother's heart could rest easy, if she had but known. Columbus Young is home at last.

A gggrandfather buried in Jefferson Barracks in St Louis
whose stone said Civilian, but his paper from Jeff Barracks said service CSA ,
(his name Charles HARRY name on stone Harry CARLEY refers to his own name on papers also) Why Why Why??????
A list of charges against him found, and notice he was being sent to Gratiot 
Military Prison in St Louis.(A death certificate from Gratiot .He appeared before provost marshal of St Genevieve Co.MO on Nov.1,1862 and by Dec 4,1862 he had died.) What was this place and why was he sent there.? The charges , if today , do not look so bad. (But he had to give $2.000 responsible securities)
There came:GFS Jim with his wonderful gift of knowledge,about Gratiot , which he generously shared.What a hell hole on earth. 

And then came IKE, from his store of wonderful books, and a great source of knowledge He could and did send information on this hell hole.
Three generous hearted people,and I thank you very much. I could never have done it with out you. 
Thank you , such a small word. Jean Y.

{{{Jean}}} You have touched on the purpose of this "Band of Folk". Namely to help one another out. We thank you for your "small word", but we're more excited to have been able to have the opportunity to do so!! Heh Heh That "don't" always happen :-)
*************************************************************************************
Subj: Civil War Artifacts - news item
From: Bulldogtjr

The story that follows is in the July 19, 1998 issue of the Philadelphia Inquirer and was written by Monica Yant, a staff writer for the paper. It is not on "the wire" so it may not get widespread publicity, at least not yet...I think it is interesting and so pass it on to you. Get comfy....
SALE OF CIVIL WAR ARTIFACTS TOUCHES OFF A LEGAL BATTLE
A descendant of Gen. George Pickett was paid a fraction of their worth

George "Ed" Pickett 5th didn't know much about antiques, but $87,500 sure sounded like a lot of money for the contents of a trunk catching dust in the attic of his house in Wilmington, N.C.

That's how much Russ Pritchard 3d, an appraiser from Bryn Mawr, was willing to pay for the effects of Pickett's great-great-grandaddy---not just any old guy, but the ill-starred Gen. George Edward Pickett, who on July 3, 1863, led his men into the pivotal clash of the Civil War's bloodiest battle, Gettysburg.

So in November 1995, the latter-day Pickett sold his namesake's blue kepi, the very cap worn on that calamitous Confederate charge. He sold the general's swords, his officer's commissioning papers, a sleeve ripped from his jacket after a bullet struck his arm, a lock of his hair, and his wife's wedding slippers. He sold an original map of Gettysburg signed by Pickett, a pastel portrait of him, and a passel of letters and documents.

A respected expert on military artifacts and frequent guest on PBS's The Antiques Road Show, Pritchard took the treasures to Harrisburg. Two weeks after buying them from Pickett, he sold them to the city for its new National Civil War Museum The price, by then, had gone up somewhat---to $870,000.

Now comes another Pickett's Charge, into federal court. In a lawsuit filed this month in Philadelphia, George Pickett, 43, alleges that defrauded him of more than $700,000. The lawsuit also contends that the appraiser sold the museum a series of antique photos---which Pickett says he only loaned to Pritchard--- and then replaced the originals with laser copies. And it charges that publishing rights to Gen Pickett's letters were sold as well, again without his great-great-grandson's agreement.

"I was totally naive," Pickett, a contractor, said in an interview late last week. "Regrettably."

Pritchard's only comment has come in a statement released by his company, American Ordnance Preservation Association in Bryn Mawr. In it, he said: "Mr. Pickett himself set the prices, and we paid him what he asked. Any claim that we under-appraised the items or defrauded [him] is simply untrue."

Watching this battle from the flank is Harrisburg Mayor Stephen R. Reed, who bought the items as part of a four-year, $12 million project to develop the Civil War museum, set to open by 2000. Hearing Pickett's allegations "made the mayor's jaw drop," said Randy King, his spokesman. "It does cast a black eye both upon the city and the project."

Pickett said he became suspicious about his deal with Pritchard only last month, after attending a ceremony at Gettysburg---his first visit. There he met an expert in Civil War clothing, Earl Coates, who told him that Harrisburg had paid $870,000 for the Pickett artifacts. The kepi alone, Coates said, was worth more than $100,000. Pickett was paid $3,000 for it. 

"At that point," he said, "I started wondering." He called Mayor Reed, who until then thought Pickett had received the bulk of the city's payment.

"At a minimum, Pickett probably should have gotten about $750,000," said spokesman King, "It was a major betrayal."

In his statement, Pritchard said that his negotiations with Pickett over the sale of the general's effects had gone on "for months." Pickett, he noted, had ample opportunity to have the artifacts appraised by any number of other sources if he wanted to."

Pickett had inherited the heirlooms from his father, who got them from his own father. For years, he kept them in a trunk in the attic, away from the sticky hands of his four small children. 

He concedes he knows little of his namesake's exploits, of the battle in which 12,000 Confederate troops stormed the Union front lines across an open field in an effort known as Pickett's Charge. In 40 devastating minutes, five out of every eight Confederates were killed, wounded, or taken prisoner.

"He wasn't the kind of guy who would hide behind his mother's skirt" is young Pickett's take on the general. "He was a brave guy."

Pickett's lawsuit alleges that Pritchard approached him in the fall of 1995 wanting to examine and appraise some of his heirlooms for the Harrisburg museum. According to the suit, Pritchard presented himself as a representative of the city and maintained that he would receive only a $1,000-per-day fee plus expenses for his work. With no idea of the items' value, Pickett said he asked Pritchard about getting additional appraisals. The lawsuit alleges that Pritchard dissuaded Pickett, saying that auction houses are "corrupt," that he would not get a fair price and would have no say over where his heirlooms ended up.

"[Pritchard] said he was the expert, that there wasn't anybody who was better," Pickett said last week. "I believed him. I thought those things deserved to be in a museum."

After a long night of talking, he said, the men agreed on a deal. "I said, ' if that's all they're worth, that's all they're worth," Pickett recalled.

For the same items, Pritchard billed Harrisburg $870,000---a price that Mayor Reed considers a good deal, perhaps half their real value, his spokesman said. The two swords Pickett used in his famous battle, King said, probably are worth about $250,000.

When the mayor's office questioned Pritchard and company representatives, King said, "they [justified] it as normal business. I guess the argument's been made that [Pickett] didn't do his own diligence in finding out what his stuff was really worth."

While the city supports Pickett's claims, King said, it will not be joining the lawsuit. And, having bought the items, there is no chance Harrisburg will give them back, he added. In a perfect world, said Pickett's attorney, Gavin Lentz, the general's wordly goods would be returned to their rightful owner.

Picket, said Lentz, "would like the stuff back. He feels he had the wool pulled over his eyes."
End of News Item....

I can just "see" you folks shaking your heads over this. Not only at the thought of these artifacts lying in an attic for over 100 years, but at the simple-minded heir and the references to "stuff".....Egads!!!! I'd like to hear some of your comments, and Jim, do you think this is appropriate for inclusion in "The Fireside" ?? Ted 

"Ted" I do indeed and here it is.....
*************************************************************************************
Subj: Re: Civil War Artifacts
From: FI WATROUS

Re: Civil War Artifacts News Item

Sure makes the old blood pressure zoom!

Not sure where to direct the anger first --- at the unscrupulous Pritchard -- clearly a charlatan, or at Pickett's gg grandson, who didn't know a thing about his
illustrious gg grandfather's career, exploits or any of the history surrounding his famous family. How could he have made it to adulthood with no curiousity about his gg grandfather or the Civil War with those artifacts in his attic? 
This is not ignorance alone - it is absolute apathy! We should be used to apathetic family members by now --- but this seems so much more a serious crime given who the ancestor was!!

I have a friend who teaches American History at the High School level. This is often the ONLY American history high school grads receive. I asked him what was taught about the Civil War, because I couldn't remember much at all from my HS experience. He said, given the curriculum, he gets to teach the following: several days on Colonial America and the events leading up to the Am Rev, 2 days on the Am. Rev. War, two days on the Civil War, 2 days on WWI, 2 days on WW II, a brief reference to the Korean "Conflict", and 1 day on the Vietnam War. A little more time to explore the politics. I see a few wars or "conflicts" missing altogether in that list. Given that these are 1 hour classes, if you were absent one day, you'd miss several generations of history. That leaves self-motivation to study history outside the classroom. What percentage of young people do we find in the libraries after the school day for ANY reason?

So, why am I surprised that this gg grandson is totally ignorant of his family history - or any other history? Don't even know what words to use: "appalling", "tragic", "infuriating"? Surely all of the above.

Ought to make us all feel that what we are doing with family history is more important than ever. You can't do genealogy without history. Hopefully this will
be our small effort to help preserve our families', and thus a part of our nation's, heritage.

Jim - surely this newspaper article is appropriate for the Fireside!

Ike Watrous
FIWATROUS@aol.com

"Ike" It do !!
************************************************************************************ 


WHAT WE ARE ABOUT…………. 

OUR FOCUS: the "History of the North American Civil War". 

OUR GOAL: to enhance your Genealogy activity, knowledge, and "wisdom" by talking about the history 
surrounding their lives and actions; specifically the "Civil War" that our ancestors lived through and died 
because of. 

OUR PROMISE: to provide an "online" environment that is NOT judgemental and to address ALL 
aspects of this "Pivotal Period" in our History, with honesty and truth (where we know it). 

We do "Fireside Stories" about the battles, people and social happenings. In addition we dedicate one 
Thursday a month to sharing Songs, Poems and Letters from that era. So come back and visit; we'll save 
you a seat at the Fireside, and keep the Cider warm..... For a full listing of upcoming events, either look 
on the Schedule at the end of this Notice or in the Upcoming Events of the Genealogy Forum.

As we review the logs, and we find new visitors who show an interest in this topic and our Thursday 
sessions, we automatically add you to our distribution for this "Weekly Fireside." 

AND TO YOU "FIRST-TIMERS" THIS WEEK, "Welcome"... :) 

We heartily enjoyed your visit and participation. We relish what members bring to the discussions, and 
we hope to see more of you.... Note that for any reason, should you desire to be removed from 
distribution of this "Weekly Missif", just drop us a line and we will comply with your wishes "poste-
haste". 

Schedule of Upcoming Topics/Events****** 

Time: Every Thursday Night at 11pm ET in the Golden Gates Room with Host GFS Jim and our many 
fill-in friends :) 


7/23/98 - "The Redstick War" A Guest Fireside by two great ladies, GFS Karen and GFS BB. 

7/30/98 - OPEN CHAT 

8/6/98 - "An Ending and a Beginning" - GFS Jim I'm trying something a little different on this one.... 

8/13/98 - "Letters, Songs and Poems" Night. 

8/20/98 - OPEN CHAT

We'll See You Thursday Night……….! 
Your Hosts 
GFS Jayne and GFS Jim

"The Weekly Fireside" 
of the American Civil War History 
Special Interest Group 
Distribution Coast to Coast

July 1998

Special Edition on Courthouse Records; a Public Forum.....

There has been a lot of communication regarding the Rensselaer County, New York and Marion County, West Virginia record loss events. Both sides.... Sooooo, I'm doing a special edition of the "Fireside to address these. Hope they are of value to you.... GFS Jim
*************************************************************************************
Subj: Update on Discarded Records, WV
From: FI WATROUS

Further update on the saga of discarded documents in Marion Co., West Virginia.
We cannot say that our rage has been dissipated by the further "explanations" of the county officials, but 
we felt it important to give you the "rest of the story".
We believe, at the very least, a conscious-raising of a wide scope has occurred with regard to the 
preservation of any and all evidence/records which help support the research and preserve the history of 
our personal, regional and national heritage.
Ike and Nancy Watrous
FIWATROUS@aol.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It is not quite as bad as it first sounded but maybe we all need to work
to develop a standard for officials to go by as to what is important or
not, and a little fundraising to help store or film them.
Sheila I Hale
Fort McMurray,AB,Canada

Please bear with me for this last, long email. There was a third story
published today, June 26, by the WV Times about Marion County, and to be
fair, it should be available to the same people who have read the first two
stories. It was, as follows:

* * * * *
By Theresa Haynes
Times West Virginian Staff Writer

FAIRMONT -
Local genealogists searching for an old marriage record or birth
certificate do not need to go sifting through the trash.

Marion County Clerk Janice Cosco said her department did not throw away any
permanent records from the Jacobs building earlier this month when
maintenance workers cleared away six BFI Dumpsters of outdated files and
papers from the historic building.

"Everything we are charged by law to keep was not thrown away," she said.
"No permanent records, that I know of, were thrown away."

Cosco, who death certificates, deeds,marriage certificates, land transfers, voter registration records and county commission records dating back to the county's inception in 1842.

She said her department discarded old fiscal records, pieces of paper
recording every penny spent at the county clerk's office, and outdated
universal consumer code slips, which record credit transactions.

Cosco said she is legally responsible to save the receipt books for 10
years and the consumer code slips for seven years, but she boxed and stored
the records for at least two decades.

For years the Jacobs building housed these outdated records, but earlier
this month Cosco gave maintenance workers permission to trash the papers
including some receipt books dating back to 1920.

The county clerk said she would have liked to save everything but there
just was not room to house it all. "The public needs to understand that
in order to keep their precious records we have to have a place to put
them," she said as she stood inside one of the courthouse's many fireproof
vaults filled with old wills and birth, marriage and death records.

"(Marion County Commissioner) Cody Starcher has gotten all kinds of flak
over this, but Cody should get an award," she said. "He found the money to
restore the Jacob's building so we could have a place to put the permanent
records."

Last year Starcher was instrumental in getting the state to approve
transferring $330,000 from the jail improvement fund to renovate the
dilapidated Jacobs building.

When renovations are complete, the old building will be used for office
space and record storage.

Starcher, who is also overseeing the Jacobs building cleanup, said he did
not sort through the five floors of piled papers and books, but allowed the
county clerk, circuit clerk, prosecuting attorney and assessor to walk
through the building and take what they wanted. Everything else was
discarded.

Local historians believe some records, including 10 leather-bound pre-Civil
War Justice of the Peace books, were thrown away because no one in the
courthouse set them aside to be kept.

Because Justice of the Peace books are not considered permanent records,
Starcher said the county could have thrown them away years ago.

But the former Justice of the Peace said he does not know for sure if the
Justice of the Peace books dating back to 1842 were destroyed because he
does not know what the historical books look like or why anyone would want
them.

"I don't know why anyone would want to look at those anyway," he asked. "I
guess it is all in the eye of the beholder." Starcher said even if
historians thought the information in the books was valuable, the books
themselves were damaged from years of sitting in a dusty, nearly abandoned
building.

"That building was burned three times and everything in there was rained
on. Some of the windows were broken out," he said. "Anything in there was
scarred, scratched or torn up."

The county commissioner said the Jacobs building still is in such poor
condition he is afraid to allow genealogists and historians to search
through the remaining records at the old building.

"We couldn't keep all five floors of junk and garbage and renovate that
building," he said. "We thought we would do something better for the town
and the county and renovate the building. That took precedence over a
couple of books that might have been thrown away."
* * * * *

MY COMMENTS:

First of all, thank each of you who have contributed your emails and
letters in protest of the actions by the Marion County Commissioners. I
was amazed at how quickly the masses responded despite our physical
separation (this 'ole Internet is pretty good, eh?). The pressure we
created was felt by all the local government, citizens and especially the
county commissioners of Marion County.

The jury is still out on whether all the materials that were dumped were,
indeed, unrelated to the object of genealogy or historian researchers. I
don't feel comfortable that their "definition" of what was thrown away
excludes materials that would be of benefit to some! We imagined the
worst, since Mr. Cody Starcher admitted there was not an inventory of what
was tossed. With no inventory, we were all free to imagine what was in
that pile, and Mr. Starcher can not prove us wrong. He has no idea he
didn't toss some historical or cultural treasure, no matter how minor it
may have been to him.

This is a democracy, and we do have a right to be told before public
records are thrown away. Our outrage continues to be about our paid
officials making unilateral decisions such as was made. They should not be
allowed to decide who to invite in to "take what they want" and then to
decide to have the rest hauled away before anyone else could see it.

It was Cody Starcher's secretive actions that raised the suspicions of the
local Marion County historians and, eventually, the newspapers and then
each of us. We were all outraged over Commissioner Starcher's arbitrary
exercise of power, and we've done well to spotlight it! We have all acted
in the spirit of the early American Revolutionaries (many of our ancestors)
who demanded public officials be accountable to the public. As a friend
said, "we showed up with Email pitchforks, and Cody didn't like it."

Hopefully, our actions this week will serve to keep records that are left
in Marion County and elsewhere preserved. Thank you again for helping to
spotlight a wrongful action. If you should want to continue that pressure,
that is up to you. An address list of the Marion County Commissioners is
below:


 BOARD OFCOMMISSIONERS

PRESIDENT, James E Sago (304-367-5400)
200 Jackson Street / Fairmont, WV 26554

Commissioner Cecily Enos (304-367-5400)
200 Jackson Street / Fairmont, WV 26554

Commissioner Cody Starcher (304-367-5400)
200 Jackson Street / Fairmont, WV 26554

Assessor Thomas Davis (304-367-5410)
200 Jackson Street / Fairmont, WV 26554

Circuit Clerk Barbara Core (304-367-5360)
PO Box 1269 / Fairmont, WV 26554

County Clerk Janice Cosco (304-367-5440)
PO Box 1267 / Fairmont, WV 26554

* * * * *

Pam Mullinax
E-Mail:
 pmullinax@mindspring.com



**********************************************************************
Subj: Re: Document preservation in general
From: Bulldogtjr

The story of the record tossing in WV was disturbing to say the least. Sorry to say, I ran across equally cavalier attitudes by public officials and courthouse hacks in my most recent forays for information. The most glaring example occurred in Troy, N. Y. the county seat for Rensselaer County where I went a few weeks ago seeking information. I was directed to the Troy Public Library, situated next door to the Court House, where old records have been loosely kept for decades. I personally saw valuable old records including deeds, census records, naturalization records, etc.literally crumbling to dust. I took a record book dating back to the early 1900's from a shelf and it fell apart in my hands. Still other old books were, and are, lying on top of the shelves amid dirt, dust, paper refuse etc. that have totally disintegrated. I asked the clerk/librarian -in-charge why this was being allowed to happen. Her reply was that the "old County Clerk didn't have the money for preservation. The new person just hasn't had the time to look into it." Conversely, I also saw the exact opposite attitude in Washington County, N.Y. where all the old records have been indexed, laminated, bound, scanned into the computer, and are ready for use by researchers...complete with helpful assistance by caring clerks. I suppose all of us involved in genealogical matters have had similar experiences. I guess we have to speak up and get the publicity spotlight shining into these dark corners and identify those responsible. From the Internet I picked out the name of the Rensselaer County Gen. Web Page Coordinator, a Ms. Debby Masterson (dells@azstarnet.com) as a possible first contact point. She is in NO way responsible for the deplorable conditions in the records office. But the person who is primarily responsible is the Rensselaer County Clerk, Mr. Frank Merola. His address is Rensselaer County Court House, Troy, N. Y. His boss is Mr. Henry Zwack, County Executive, 5th floor, Rensselaer County Court House, Troy, N.Y. I have not found an Internet address for these two but maybe Debby can help. Avalanches start small....Here is the first snowball...lets all make one....Debby?
************************************************************************************
Subj: MARION CO., WV DOCUMENTS
Date: 98-07-04 17:01:12 EDT
From: FI WATROUS
To: fritz@fidnet.com, OR826, GFS Jim, Bulldogtjr
To: Cato3240, IllinoisCW, MDelPa, NEVassau, DJoi
To: Holm Hogs, mass55th@earthlink.com
To: ngolden@sprintmail.com, DrgnKpr1, Acadian99
To: Barbwir406, Edie 157, MEllis4864, HappyL7221
To: Joeycoch, GENESGENE, BaileyABCE, FyrfytrBob
To: GREEN-L@rootsweb.com, NASH-L@rootsweb.com
To: BBova2332, SamCasey, NELinks
To: VALKENBURG-L@rootsweb.com

Fellow Genealogists --
If you thought your voice could not make a difference, read on .............
It appears there will still be some censure of what the historians and genealogists will be able to view. But at least this is a positive step.
Sadly, we could not stop the initial discarding of documents. However, the
publicity generated by that unthinking act of ignorance, when four dumpsters full of records from the 1840s to the 1880s were hauled away to the dump in Marion Co., WV, may never be repeated. Someone will always be there to say "Remember what happened in Marion Co., WV".(We can only hope) Apparently the County Commissioners and local newspapers received hundreds and hundreds of emails and letters from concerned and outraged genealogists and historians from around the country.
Hurray for you!!
Ike and Nancy Watrous <FIWATROUS@aol.com>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: "Pam Mullinax" <pmullinax@mindspring.com>

Our email campaign over the past week has contributed to the pressure felt
by the county commissioners. You have made a difference! Please forward
this to whomever you have sent the previous stories.

* * *
County will allow historians into Jacobs building
By Theresa Haynes
Times West Virginian Staff Writer

FAIRMONT -
Local historians concerned about the possible disposal of historical
documents from the Jacobs building will be allowed to inventory the
materials remaining in the building.

The Marion County Commission agreed Wednesday to allow a small group of
historians to enter the Jacobs building and inspect the files and books
which were left after the county ordered maintenance workers to discard
several truck loads of outdated books and files last month.

Maty will be allowed to enter the Jacobs
building and look at the records, but the group will not be allowed to walk
through the building in search of records. Shaffer said the county is
concerned historians may also see confidential juvenile records stored in
the building, so she said maintenance workers and teen-agers working with
the Governor's Summer Youth Program will bring the boxes of books and
records to the historians.

The county administrator said the county will also require the historians to
sign a waiver relieving the county of liability if the genealogists are
injured in the dilapidated Jacobs building. Local genealogists had asked
the county to let them go through the historical building to assess what
materials are left and hopefully salvage any that are of historical value.

Joanne Cimaglia, first vice president of the Marion County Historical
Society, said the historical group is pleased to be given an opportunity to
examine the remaining historical records, but she said it would have been
better if the county had allowed genealogists to look at the materials which
were thrown into garbage dumpsters and taken to the Meadowfill Landfill.
She said the county never told local historical and genealogical societies
that it planned to clear out the Jacobs building for renovations.

But Cimaglia said it is too late to do anything about what has been
discarded. Now it is time to assess what is left and go on from there.

"The first step is to go in there and identify what type of documents are
there and what kind of photos and maps are there," she said.

County officials maintain that only duplicates and unimportant receipts and
bookkeeping files were discarded and that all vital records that are
required by law to be kept, including those pertaining to births and
marriages, have been retained.
******************************************************************************
Subj: CALL TO ARMS
From: FI WATROUS

This came from another Rootsweb List and we were so outraged at reading this that we felt morally bound to pass it on. Keep in mind, these are "elected" officials!!
We hope you will flood the newspaper mentioned below with letters to the editor.

Ike and Nancy Watrous
FIWATROUS@aol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I thought this might be of interest to anyone with VA ancestors. People
like this need to be stopped, and we all need to ensure that this type
of thing NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.

Sheila I Hale
Fort McMurray,AB,Canada
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Please forward the news of this Marion County, West Virginia travesty to every 
genealogy group or historical society that you belong to. Also, if you have any
media contacts or government contacts please forward this information to them.
Let's make Cody Starcher infamous! 

From: Pam Mullinax
E-Mail: pmullinax@mindspring.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Fairmont -- Leatherbound books recording transactions between 1842 to
1880 have been important to local genealogist, but now the historical
books are gone - buried with the five bins of trash the Marion County
Commission hauled away from the Jacob's building last week.

Along with books were, boxes and files of papers dating back to Marion
County's inception in 1942. There were five floors that had books, boxes 
and files to be removed.

Some of the books were Wills; others were Justice of the Peace books. 
There may have been other records, but the article didn't say what all 
had been destoyed, because they didn't know. The article was a large 
article for the paper. The historical and genealogical societies were
NOT notified that the county had planned to discard the handwritten
record books, files and other etcs. 

It seems the decision was made by the county commissioners (namely, Cody
Starcher) to clear out several floors from the Jacobs building (scheduled
for renovation) in which these historical documents were stored. They
decided on their own that no one would want to go through all the files to
separate out the salvagable and so decided to not tell anyone. They then
had the local garbage collectors come and clear out the books and documents.

*************

The story about the above first appeared in the Times West Virginian 
(Fairmont, WV) Sunday, June 21, 1998. On Thursday, June 25, 1998 the 
below follow-up story was published.

* * *
Dump off limits to historians 

By Theresa Haynes 
Times West Virginian Staff Writer

FAIRMONT - 
Genealogists who wanted to dig through the landfill in search of the
county's discarded pre-Civil War record books will not be allowed to
excavate the dump. Ron Chrislip, a local historian who has researched
Marion County's past for more than 30 years, said he and four other people
were prepared to go to the Meadowfill Landfill in Bridgeport to search for
the record books tossed last week.

But landfill officials halted the group's plans at the request of the
Marion County Commission.

The day books dating back to 1842 were among several tons of outdated
files, books and papers the commission removed from the historic Jacob's
building, which is undergoing renovation.

Chrislip said he and other genealogists wanted to dig up the historically
valuable record books when they learned the books had been hauled away to
the dump, but the landfill told them there were confidential files among
the garbage.

Commissioner Cody Starcher said in an interview last week that the county
had received special permission from the state to include old juvenile
records in the six BFI Dumpster trash bins hauled to the dump.

"We are allowed to throw the juvenile records away after 20 years," he
said. "But they usually have to be shredded and burned."

Now local historians are concerned they will never see the priceless,
handwritten books again.

"I don't see how they will be retrieved," Chrislip said. "As a historian I
have to be realistic. Now hopefully the county will preserve what is left."
Chrislip said the leather-bound books were particularly valuable because
they recorded everything from the county clerk's office.

"Record keeping then was a very different process," he said. "We were still
in Virginia and documents like that are very, very rare."

The historian said the records gave insight into a lifestyle long gone.

"There is no oral history from that time, no photography and very little
written history. Through the day books we had a great deal of information
to interpret history," he said.

Chrislip agrees with the county commission that the books had no monetary
value, but he said the county has lost something culturally valuable.

He said 20 years ago he had searched for day books like the ones thrown
away and was told they did not exist. Years later he learned they were in
existence, but in "dead" storage.

The historian said he and other people interested in genealogy would have
liked to have been given access to the books before they were discarded.

County Commission President James Sago and Starcher were not available for
comment Wednesday evening. 
* * *

If you'd like to write the Editor of the WV Times,

The email address is:
timeswv@timeswv.com

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR: 
All letters for publication should be so stated. 
Requests for publication must include address & telephone number. 
phone: (304) 367-2500 * Fax: (304) 367-2569 

Or postal mail to: 
Times West Virginian 
PO Box 2530 
Fairmont, WV 26555-2530 
*******************************************************************************
Subj: Re: Major U.S. Epidemics/County Records update
From: Bulldogtjr

Ike/Nancy: Thanks for the epidemic information, interesting and informative. I received a reply from the Rensselaer County Clerk in Troy, NY. The tone of the response is conciliatory and mildly defensive. I think my letter might have helped to get these people off their duff to avoid the publicity ...however, I will keep our historical/genealogical spotlight focused on them and request regular reports. Also, an occasional unannounced trip up there couldn't hurt...The County Clerk's letter is dated July 14, 1998 and reads as follows: (BF TYPE IS MINE)

Dear Mr. Ryan:
I was somewhat confused by your first letter which made reference to the Troy Public Library. The loft you mentioned is our storage area for census and naturalization records.

As Rensselaer County Clerk, I am responsible for all of our county's land and court records. As you are aware, these books have been neglected over a period of many years. When I took office just six months ago. my first priority was to seek vendors for quotes to restore and film the above mentioned books. We now have the necessary quotes to move forward and seek the support of the Rensselaer County Executive, Henry Zwack, as well as the Rensselaer County Legislature.

This office has many areas that need immediate attention and added to that, we are also in the process of moving our records to a new location. Ohopes and goal are to upgrade and restore many of our old books and equipment with the support of county government.

Ad Rensselaer County Clerk, I feel confident that this office is going to take some long-needed measures to restore and preserve our county's records.

If you would like further information concerning our plans, please feel free to contact me on (518) 270-4080. Sincerely, Frank J. Merola, Rensselaer County Clerk
Copy to Henry Zwack, County Executive and John Hocok, Troy Public Library
End of letter.............
I trust this will all come to pass. We shall see.........

Stay tuned everyone............Ted
************************************************************************************
Subj: Destroyed Records
From: Gen4Jan

Jim:
I forwarded a copy of the portion of your newsletter advising us of the destroyed records in Marion Co., West Virginia to the volunteer for the Marion Co. WV GenWeb Project. This is the reply I received:

Subj: Re: Fwd: Destroyed records
Date: 98-07-13 17:11:51 EDT
From: lfwclw@bedford.net (Wichterman)
To: Gen4Jan@aol.com

Thanks for your concern.
All that you read is true - but -
The records in question were found safe and sound. They thought they had
been thrown out, etc., but they couldn't even do that right, I guess!
They were found still in the building.
I don't live in the state, so I don't have any details, but things are
okay, and hopefully they - and others - will use this as a warning to be
a little more careful and thoughtful.

Larry

It seems kind of strange to me that all of a sudden the records are safe and sound. I hope Larry is correct.

Janet Johnson
*************************************************************************************

"The Weekly Fireside" 
of the American Civil War History 
Special Interest Group 
Week ending 26 July 1998 

The Guest "Tale" Thursday Night on the Cherokee History in the Civil War was absolutely phenomenal to 
say the least....... THANK YOU GFS Karen and GFS BB for pulling together this material for us. AND 
MUCH PRAISE to Peter Mingess for his willingness to share material from his upcoming book with us. 
From all of us here in Civil War History we THANK YOU. For copyright reasons we will not post this 
material, but Peter has agreed to respond to personnal requests. Please email GFS Jim or GFS Jayne and 
we will pass on your request.....

To properly address all the happenings of the County Courthouse Records events that have been flashing 
through, a Special Edition goes out this week. I'll only publish it as new items come to me. There have 
been so much lately that I thought it would be a good idea to provide a "Public Forum" related to these 
events..... Hope you find this helpful....

FOR ALL THE 1ST TIMERS - "WELCOME" WE ENJOYED HAVING YOU :-)..... COME 
AGAIN.... 

The final continuing series in the newsletter, is on the Civil War Military Records which can be found at, 
or through film ordering at your local Family History Centers........ So many of you have been astonished 
that those records are available through the FHCs, that I thought this would be very useful in your 
research.... 

This upcoming Thursday is OPEN CHAT on Civil War History. Come join us...
************************************************************************************* 

THE HELP DESK 

This segment is to address specific questions that hit our plate on Thursday night that we didn't have a 
chance to answer or needed a bit of time to check it out. Hope these answer the mail :D 

Editor's Note: Regimental Histories and Letters, etc. Postings: keyword "roots", after which will bring 
you to the main screen of the Genealogy Forum. Select the "Files Library Center", then "History Files". 
At that point select "Civil War Files. Lectures are also posted in the "Files Library Center" under "History 
Lectures" as the Lecture Subject. Meeting Logs are posted in the "Files Library Center" under "Meeting 
Logs and Newsletters". 
************************************************************************************* 
U.S. Military Records at the Family History Centers............................. 

The next stage of series, I thought would be best to describe the various Types of Military Records 
available for Civil War researchers and those available through the FHC network. 

Specific Union Sources........................... 

Union Army soldiers may have served in the U.S. Army, local militia units mustered into federal service, 
or volunteer regiments raised by the individual states. The length of service varied from 90 days to three 
years. Many soldiers also re-enlisted serving in more than one regiment. The Union Army and Navy 
enlisted over 2.3 million men, of which nearly 359,000 died in combat or from wounds and disease.

Union Service Records

Service Records of Soldiers. - There is currently no master index to the names of soldiers who served in 
Union volunteer regiments. Note from the editor: A Union Soldiers Roster is in the making by Broadfoot 
Publishing, but it's incomplete. Individual indexes to state volunteer regiments are available on microfilm 
for every Northern state and every Southern state except South Carolina. Most service records have not 
been microfilmed and are available only at the National Archives. The following service records and 
indexes are available on microfilm at the National Archives and Family History Library........

...........states continued.

- Iowa. Index. National Archives Microfilm Publication M541 (FHL 
films 881,808-36; FHLC computer number 279543).

- Kansas. Index. National Archives Microfilm Publication M542 (FHL 
films 881,837-46; FHLC computer number 278711).


- Kentucky. Compiled Service Records, National Archives Microfilm Publication M397 (FHL films 
1,487,066-275; 1,489,753-1,490,057; FHLC computer number 437572) and Index, National Archives 
Microfilm Publication M386 (FHL films 881,492-521; FHLC computer number 279582).

- Louisiana. Compiled Service Records, National Archives Microfilm Publication M396 (FHL films 
1,380,930-979; FHLC computer number 437574) and Index, National Archives Microfilm Publication 
M387 (FHL films 831,926-29; FHLC computer number 280581).

- Maine. Index, National Archives Microfilm Publication M543 (FHL films 881,847-69; FHLC 
computer number 175675).

.........................to be continued... 

************************************************************************************ 
From: rosewebb@datasync.com (Rose C. Webb)

Subj: The Civil War in South Carolina
From: GaLinaHist@AOL.COM (John Rigdon)

I've added a couple of thousand more names to my Civil War in South Carolina
site primarily from the rosters of the men who surrendered at Appomattox.

This now brings the total to 7,817 names on line along with biographical notes
on many of them and the units in which they served. This makes about 12% of
the 65,000 men who served from South Carolina, and about 25% of the approx.
30,000 names I have found now on line.

Many thanks to the many who have helped to fill in the holes and correct
errrors which have been found in the rosters.! I welcome any additional bio.
/ genealogical info. you may have on the men who served from SC.

Enjoy!
http://members.aol.com/superstore/sccd.htm

{{{Rosie}}} I don't know where you find this info, but keep those cards and letters rollin :-) PS: Keep 
Rosie in your prayers as she is a bit down lately. Going to the Doc to get checked out. Rosie - we'll be 
keeping you in our prayers. You hurry back now, "Hyar"?
************************************************************************************
DID YOU KNOW?? ................................... 
Excerpts taken from "Best Little Stories from the Civil War" by C. Brian Kelly.....

In the House of Representatives, Washington D.C. in 1858, Galusha Grow of Pennsylvania 
uttered a few antislavery remarks, then wandered over to the Democratic side of the aisle to talk to a 
colleague. From there he responded to another member's remards, even though he was not at his seat....or 
even among his fellow Republicans.
None of this was lost upon South Carolina's Democratic representative, Laurence M. Keitt, who 
told the Pennsylvanian to "go back to your own side of the hall."
Grow replied: "This is a free hall and every man has a right to be where he pleases. I will object 
when and where I please."
Whereupon Keitt said, "Sir, I will let you know that you are a black Republican puppy."
Grow then said the hall belonged to the American people, he could stay where he pleased, "and 
no slave driver shall crack his whip over my head."
Seconds later, the fists flew in the House chamber. Keitt went down, knocked out cold by Grow's 
punch to the jaw. But the fight didn't end there ... or with them.
It wasn't as shocking as the time, in 1856, that South Carolina's representative, Preston Smith 
Brooks, strode into the Senate chamber and brode his gutta-percha cane beating on stridently abolitionist 
Senator Charles Sumner of massachusetts, but it was a bona fide fight on the House floor all right. Others 
immediately plunged into the melee. It is said that knives and even pistols were in evidence. Someone 
hurled a large spitton, and Representative William Barksdale of Mississippi lost his wig to a Wisconsin 
member. When Barksdale got it back, he put it on backward. The levity that resulted helped restore order 
to the House.
In 1863, Barksdale was killed at Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. In 1864, Keitt was killed at Cold 
Harbor, Virginia.
************************************************************************************
A BIT OF COMMUNITY............................ 

Check out the following member inputs for comments and requests for information, Feedbacks, Items of 
Interest and Pleas for HELP................ 

************************************************************************************
From: Bipsylou
To: GFS Jim

Enjoyed reading your info. I have been out of town and have three weeks of mail to catch up on.
D.Sands 

Thanks for your feedback. It's good to know we're hitting the mark.... :-)
************************************************************************************
From: AslanJ

In a message dated 6/29/98 12:43:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time, GFS Jim writes:
<< You know this is a neat opportunity to encourage all of you to meet your Internet Friends if the 
opportunity ever presents itself to you. It is such a neat experience. Go for it :D >>

Hi Fireside pals! I can't encourage you more to do what GFS Jim says to do with net friends. We just had 
our BRYAN reunion (in AL, though our BRYAN line went from Craven Co, NC to Barnwell Dist, SC 
and into GA. We don't have many who went to AL, but the Eufaula area Lake Point Natl Pk Lodge was a 
great place for a reunion). ANyway, we had 2 new friends/cousins, who have been in touch via email, 
come to the reunion and it was really great to meet them in person. It really IS a neat experience.
Judy Canant - FL

{{{Judy}}} It is indeed!!!!!
*************************************************************************************
From: Pollyann9
Subj: neat regarding kiddos

Kids and love
Tips on love from those that should know (all questions were
answered by kids, age 5-10)

WHAT IS THE PROPER AGE TO GET MARRIED?

"Eighty-four, because at that age you don't have to work anymore, and you
can spend all your time loving each other in your bedroom." (Judy, 8)

"Once I'm done with kindergarten, I'm going to find me a wife" Tom, 5)

WHAT DO MOST PEOPLE DO ON A DATE?

"On the first date, they just tell each other lies, and that usually gets
them interested enough to go for a second date" (Mike, 10)

WHEN IS IT OKAY TO KISS SOMEONE?

"You should never kiss a girl unless you have enough bucks to buy her a big
ring and her own VCR, 'cause she'll want to have videos of the wedding"
(Jim, 10)

"Never kiss in front of other people. It's a big embarrassing thing if
anybody sees you. But if nobody sees you, I might be willing to try it with
a handsome boy, but just for a few hours" (Kally, 9)

THE GREAT DEBATE: IS IT BETTER TO BE SINGLE OR MARRIED?

It's better for girls to be single but not boys. Boys need somebody to
clean up after them" (Lynette, 9)

"It gives me a headache to think about that stuff. I'm just a kid. I don't
need that kind of trouble" (Kenny, 7)

CONCERNING WHY LOVE HAPPENS BETWEEN TWO PARTICULAR PEOPLE

"No one is sure why it happens, but I heard it has something to do with how
you smell. That's why perfume and deodorant are so popular"
(Jan, 9)

"I think you're supposed to get shot with an arrow or something, but the
rest of it isn't supposed to be so painful" (Harlen, 8)

ON WHAT FALLING IN LOVE IS LIKE

"Like an avalanche where you have to run for your life" (Roger, 9)

"If falling in love is anything like learning how to spell, I don't want to
do it. It takes too long" (Leo, 7)

ON THE ROLE OF GOOD LOOKS IN LOVE

"If you want to be loved by somebody who isn't already in your
family, it doesn't hurt to be beautiful" (Jeanne, 8)

"It isn't always just how you look. Look at me. I'm handsome like anything
and I haven't got anybody to marry me yet" (Gary, 7)

"Beauty is skin deep. But how rich you are can last a long
time" (Christine, 9)

CONCERNING WHY LOVERS OFTEN HOLD HANDS

"They want to make sure their rings don't fall off because they paidgood
money for them" (Dave, 8)

CONFIDENTIAL OPINIONS ABOUT LOVE

"I'm in favor of love as long as it doesn't happen when 'The
Simpsons'is on television" (Anita, 6)

"Love will find you, even if you are trying to hide from it. I have been
trying to hide from it since I was five, but the girls keep finding me" (Bobby,
8)

"I'm not rushing into being in love - I'm finding fourth grade hard enough"
(Regina, 10)

THE PERSONAL QUALITIES NECESSARY TO BE A GOOD LOVER

One of you should know how to write a check. Because, even if you have tons
of love, there is still going to be a lot of bills"
(Ava, 8)

SOME SUREFIRE WAYS TO MAKE A PERSON FALL IN LOVE WITH YOU

"Tell them that you own a whole bunch of candy stores" (Del, 6)

"Don't do things like have smelly, green sneakers. You might get attention,
but attention ain't the same thing as love" (Alonzo, 9)

"One way is to take the girl out to eat. Make sure it's something she likes
to eat . French fries usually works for me" (Bart, 9)

HOW CAN YOU TELL IF TWO ADULTS EATING DINNER AT A RESTAURANT ARE IN LOVE?

"Just see if the man picks up the check. That's how you can tell if he's
in love" (John, 9)

"Lovers will just be staring at each other and their food will get cold.
Other people care more about the food" (Brad, 8)

"It's love if they order one of those desserts that are on fire. They
like to order those because it's just like how their hearts are on
fire"(Christine, 9)

WHAT MOST PEOPLE ARE THINKING WHEN THEY SAY "I LOVE YOU"

"The person is thinking: Yeah, I really do love him. But I hope he showers
at least once a day." (Michelle, 9)

HOW A PERSON LEARNS TO KISS

"You learn it right on the spot when the gooshy feelings get the best of
you"(Doug, 7)

"It might help to watch soap operas all day" (Carin, 9)

WHEN IS IT OKAY TO KISS SOMEONE?

"It's never okay to kiss a boy. They always slobber all over you. That's
why I stopped doing it" (Jean, 10)

HOW TO MAKE LOVE ENDURE

"Spend most of your time loving instead of going to work" (Tom, 7)

"Be a good kisser. It might make your wife forget that you never take out
the trash" (Randy, 8)

LOL - Polly :-) GREAT!
*************************************************************************************

From: FI WATROUS

Remember Me?

Hello! Remember Me? Some call me Old Glory, others call me the Star
Spangled Banner, but whatever they call me, I am your Flag - the Flag
of the United States of America... There has been something that has been
bothering me, so I thought that I might talk it over with you here
today. I remember some time ago, (I think it was Memorial Day, or was it
Veterans' Day?) that people were lined up on both sides of the street
for a parade. A high school band was behind me and, naturally, I was
leading the parade. When your Daddy saw me coming along waving in the 
breeze, he immediately removed his hat and placed it so that his right 
hand was directly over his heart. And you - I remember you. Standing there 
as straight as a soldier, you didn't have any hat, but you were giving me
the right salute. Remember they taught you in school to place your right
hand over your heart, and little sister, not to be outdone, was saluting the
same as you. There were some soldiers, home on leave and they were
standing at attention giving the military salute. Oh, I was very proud
as I came down your street that day. Now, I may sound as if I am a little
conceited, Well I am! I have a right to be, because I represent you,
the people of the United States of America. But what happened? I am still
the same old flag. Oh, I have a couple more stars added since you were a
boy. A lot more stars added since the beginning of this country, and lot
more blood shed since that patriotic day so long ago. Now I don't feel as
proud as I used to. When I come down your street, some people just stand
there with their hands in their pockets and give me a small glance and then
look away. I see children running around and shouting. They don't seem to
know who I am. Is it a sin to be patriotic anymore? Have some people
forgotten what I stand for? Have they forgotten all the battlefields 
where men have fought and died to keep this nation free? When you 
salute me you are actually saluting them! Take a look at the memorial 
rolls some time. Look at the names of those who never came back. 
Some of them were friends and relatives of yours. That's whom you 
are saluting, not me! Well, itwon't be long until I'll be coming down 
your street again. So, when you see me, stand straight, place your hand 
over your heart and you'll see me waving back-- that's my salute to you. 
And then I will know you remember who I am... 

Author unknown -- 

"Ike" As ever, awesome, material... Thank you friend :-)
*************************************************************************************
Subj: Joshua L. Chamberlain Museum
From: FI WATROUS

PEJEPSCOT HISTORICAL SOCIETY - JOSHUA L. CHAMBERLAIN MUSEUM

http://www.curtislibrary.com/pejepscot.htm

Thanks Ike....
*************************************************************************************
From: AJoycee
Thanks so much, for all the mail so far. I wish my brother did have an E-mail Address. I would sure pass it on if he had one.!!! Sure appreciate the correspondence so far. If he does get one soon, I know you will be hearing from him.. Thanks again Joyce

{{{Joyce}}} Well, hope I hear from him, then that'll let you off the hook - LOL...
*************************************************************************************
From: PinkPJ1934
Thank you again for the weekly fireside 
Truly enjoy reading them.
Sincerely
pinkpj1934 [Eleanor}

{{Eleanor}} It is entirely our pleasure.....
*************************************************************************************
From: Dinahme
Again I would like to take a minute to say a great big THANK YOU to you and the rest of the great people that make this happen. I work constantly in trying to preserve every little bit of information I can about the War Between the States, its stories and everything that came and went with it. 
We "Johnny Rebs" have to try to hold on to our heritage, we have to try to keep the real history, the truth, alive and to the future generations, if present day historians have their way the way thing will be really "Gone with the Wind."
How can people deliberately and willfully destroy documentation that is absolutely priceless, like the people or county commission did in Fairmont W. Virginia?
Again Thanks for keeping this going.

HORRIBLE HORRIBLE
Deanna Bryant Dinahme@aol.com

{{Deanna}} Thank you for the feedback. And a big THANKS to Ted (BULLDOGTJR) and Ike (FIWATROUS) for keeping the information flowing in. Don't forget to check the Special Edition on this topic.
************************************************************************************ 


WHAT WE ARE ABOUT…………. 

OUR FOCUS: the "History of the North American Civil War". 

OUR GOAL: to enhance your Genealogy activity, knowledge, and "wisdom" by talking about the history 
surrounding their lives and actions; specifically the "Civil War" that our ancestors lived through and died 
because of. 

OUR PROMISE: to provide an "online" environment that is NOT judgemental and to address ALL 
aspects of this "Pivotal Period" in our History, with honesty and truth (where we know it). 

We do "Fireside Stories" about the battles, the people and the social happenings. In addition we dedicate 
one Thursday a month to the sharing Songs, Poems and Letters from that era. So come back and visit; 
we'll save you a seat at the Fireside, and keep the Cider warm..... For a full listing of upcoming events, 
either look on the Schedule at the end of this Notice or in the Upcoming Events of the Genealogy Forum.

As we review the logs, and we find new visitors who show an interest or have entered into discussions on 
this topic in our Thursday sessions, we automatically add you to the distribution for this "Weekly 
Fireside." 

AND TO YOU "FIRST-TIMERS" THIS WEEK, "Welcome"... :) 

We heartily enjoyed your visit and participation. We relish what members bring to the discussions, and 
we hope to see more of you.... Note that for any reason, should you desire to be removed from 
distribution of this "Weekly Missif", just drop us a line and we will comply with your wishes "poste-
haste". 

Schedule of Upcoming Topics/Events****** 

Time: Every Thursday Night at 11pm ET in the Golden Gates Room with Host GFS Jim and our many 
fill-in friends :) 


7/30/98 - OPEN CHAT 

8/6/98 - "An Ending and a Beginning" - GFS Jim I'm trying something a little different on this one.... 

8/13/98 - "Letters, Songs and Poems" Night. 

8/20/98 - OPEN CHAT

We'll See You Thursday Night……….! 
Your Hosts 
GFS Jayne and GFS Jim

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